Freddie: It warms my heart to read this start of our conversation. It makes me blush to get such fine words from a person I deeply respect and admire. You were my tutor and an inspiration during my student years. You were part of helping us lay those first bricks to what would become the foundation of the madhouse that is Snask.

We have indeed known each other for a great number of years and it feels cleansing to have travelled through the bowels of Carlisle together. It might seem that we resent that city but it’s not true at all. We love the people (not all, in fact far from all) living in it, walking in it and dwelling in it. But truth be told it’s not the most picturesque city on the British islands and the harsh climate (not the weather) made Snask what it is. If Carlisle hadn’t been this way during our years there, we wouldn’t have experienced the real England and we have drawn a lot of inspiration in the deepest soul of Snask from that world. 15 years ago. Fuck indeed.

Freddie: Chavs. They are a species only existing on the British islands. Like Koalas in Australia but with farr more yapp and aggressiveness.

Annual Egg Flinging Project Crit – Cumbria Insitute of the Arts, Carlisle.

Midsommar 2005 – LC-A Lomograph

Freddie: Midsommar to me means to get together with the closest of friends and celebrate summer. I don’t really care about the hedonistic and pagan history of it all. It’s for sure fun and beautiful to build the midsommarstång and dance around it. But I don’t see it as putting my seed (nor others please) in the ground to fertilize. In the same way I don’t think about Jesus being born on Christmas, I was first blinded by all the gifts and now I’m blinded by the blissful enjoyment of spending time with close ones. I do think of Jesus dying and resurrecting on Easter. Not because I feel sorry for him, more because I either choose not to believe in the story, or I choose to believe that zombies are real.

For sure I must have had lucky underpants and socks but I can’t really remember them. They tend to wear out, understandingly. But since I was a student back then I didn’t wear Prada or Maserati briefs. So it was probably Topman or Debenhams slightly washed out and in a spectacular color combination. I was experimenting a lot with clothes back then and hadn’t really found out that less can be more. When it comes to socks I’ve been mostly wearing black socks during my entire adult life.

So happy to have started this and I would like to ask you a question as well. What was your honest opinion or view on me, Petter and Magnus? I’ve heard from Tony Peart (one of our other tutors) that we were mischiefs and that there was a love and hate relationship with us from his side. That we were talented but spent more time organising club nights and concerts than schoolwork! Hahaha!

Freddie: Hahaha amazing. I love the idea that Magnus was an early instigator to normcore fashion. Yepp, that’s Petter for sure, still today. WHAT haha, did I wear white jeans? How the hell did I pull that off? I probably didn’t, I don’t remember. Denial, it’s a beautiful thing. Yeah, fuck for some reason was just a way for me to put emphasis on something. I realised later that I must have come across as a teenage dirtbag.

Freddie: Work vs Party, hmmm. I think it was around 50/50 yeah. But when do you have time to have fun and be free if not in your student years eh? I can miss times when things weren’t that serious (only setting the foundation of your own career for the rest of your life probably).

Freddie: Perhaps, I strongly think that education, at least how it’s built up today, is only a part of your profession. So much has to do with social skills, pedagogy, rhetoric, empathy, teamwork, etc. Very few individualists ever make it in our industry.

Freddie: My God. I didn’t know you had such a good memory, Glen. I kind of regret this now haha. I guess I had been practising those moves during my 13 weeks on the Greek island Cos. Nothing from that trip ever makes it into my CV for some reason. Sagmeister might have paved the way in some sense and I do think that the designers before us that put 110% of themselves and their own engagement into their work have influenced us a lot. It definitely has nothing to do with Sweden, that’s for certain.

Amazing, I love the OFFF Lille film. We had so many ideas that we didn’t know what to do. In the end, we found an amazing location and let it put the framework for the entire story. I’m more strategic and in the idea and concept phase. I see myself less and less in the execution phase. Probably a consequence of running your own company.

Freddie: Nice! Friday the 13th, big day for sure. Well, since they are graduating in the worst times ever and we’re in a very depressing time of the year (when everything dies and it’s just getting darker, colder and more and more “upside-down-world”. Wise words would be, work on your portfolio. You won’t have time as soon as you get a job. You will be happy at first getting a salary and start of your career, but you will soon realise that you very seldom produce things you want to put in your portfolio. You will wake up 10 years later, dependent on a salary, and with a portfolio that you either don’t want to show or that your boss won’t allow you to show. I know so many designers that wish they had worked on their portfolio before their first big career move. You will have, pardon my French, “all the time in the world”, to do this since the job market looks pretty harsh right now. So in order to see your glass as half-full instead of half-empty, you should see this as a chance to do self-initiated projects where you are your own client, and that way have total creative freedom and push your portfolio. This way you might not have to take the career stairs once you get your first job but rather take the elevator because your portfolio is much better.

Freddie: We are still making enemies. We still hate conservatism and we strongly believe that change isn’t optional anymore, but a constant you need to get used to. We fight conservatism in every meeting and every situation. We think it’s fucked up that there hasn’t been a #meetoo in our industry when all we hear from conferences is that so many old men that are called “genius” and “design gurus” openly demand “new girls in my room every day”. Some conferences choose then to never book them, and it makes us wonder what the conferences that do book them promise them. We know that parts of our industry is very hierarchical, and in those hierarchies, it’s mostly men that are called “creative geniuses” and women become their assistants. There must be so many #meetoo’s out there and I wish that one day we will be able to open that door and call out and throw out everything that’s rotten.

Freddie: Yes, there is still so much rot we need to get rid of in this world. Unbelievable really. Lack of empathy being one. Men calling out women for being drama queens because they have “too much emotions” while men incapable of showing or communicating emotions are probably one of the biggest threats to our society and planet.

Conservatism in regards to everything that refuses change for the sake of it. If you want to keep something “the way it’s always been” I think you need to choose a date in history. Without a precise date and year, it’s hard to know what anyone means with that statement of conservatism. Should we decide that everyone who came to the British Islands before the 1200th century is full-on British? Or should we say before christ was born? Is “American” also the history of the native Indians living there before the Europeans crossed the ocean? Or is America what the Europeans decided? Or is America what it is today at this very second this sentence is read? Can you really say that one moment in history was so good that we need to conserve the way it was when all we see is that change is constant and development is a result of change.

When it comes to our industry I hate everything conservative. We need to stay on top of change and understand that it’s not optional. Overtime and working late is conservative. One of the biggest regrets of people laying on their deathbed is having worked too much and not having spent enough time with loved ones. This is not something new and thus having a rich private life full of friends and loved ones and giving them your full presence should not even be considered as “new”. It’s natural.

Freddie: Yeah, success is completely subjective. And it can also change with you as you develop through life. But it’s almost never any of these three: money, power and titles. Those three are toxic and will only make your judgement cloudy until you go blind and turn into a monster. Follow your heart is probably the easiest but also most true advice you can give yourself.

Freddie: Tell me about what you think of our book. Are there more parts than the chapter about Carlisle that you recognize from our student years?

Freddie: Haha yes that was probably the case, at least when we started out. Yes was a big thing for me, but it was also a way for me to get affirmation and acknowledgement. To be there for others and jump on every opportunity. It has for sure been valuable for me. But the problem was that I’ve always had a hard time asking others for help. So while I was always being available for others, feeling needed, I never asked others for help which deprived them of feeling needed by me. I learned this too late, unfortunately. But when it comes to saying yes to everyday situations, or tattoos, I’m all for it. And I think everyone at Snask feels the same, even though we all have our own boundaries. Yes, we tattoo interns haha. It’s a very fun tradition. When it comes to the V-society we were a bunch of nice people hanging out in Australia for a week. We really got to know each other and at the end of the week, we decided that we would all five get the same tattoo, a V for Five (we became six in the end but who cares).

Freddie: Last time I said yes to something that was like a dream was to move to Gnesta, which is a tiny village 35-60 min out from Stockholm (sounds crazy to Londoners but it’s far for us Swede’s). It’s in the countryside and at the end of the train line. My girlfriend grew up here and she wanted to move back. At first, I was very hesitant. Gnesta isn’t even considered a suburb of Stockholm. This is something I’ve come to realise is part of its charm. Most suburbs become dead because no one stays there to wine, dine and socialise. They all go into the city instead, leaving the suburban centre dead. Gnesta is far enough so people stay here, meaning that you run into people all the time and you quickly get to know everyone and become part of the community. But, I had gotten used to preaching that I wanted to live in the neon lights of a city where everything happens all the time. So it took me some time to realise that it made me stressed and what I actually needed was a place where nothing happened and that I could choose to go where things happen if I need to. But my home is in the nothingness and close to nature. So my friends ask me, “Gnesta? WTF happens in Gnesta?”. And the answer is nothing, and that’s what’s brilliant.

When it comes to the last time I said yes and it went to hell is every time I say yes to that last beer when you already decided to go home. It’s so fucking stupid and it won’t help at all the next day and it’s not even enjoyable. We all know that the first beer is the best and the last should never be had.

NICE! Yes, fuckups lead to good things. A life that is perfect and goes according to plan is a boring life that no one would want to hear a story about. Life is full of mistakes, fuckups and breakups. And it’s called life. Life’s twists and turns are what make it everything else than a boring story. Who wants to read a book about a person’s life when everything went great all the time? Fuckups are essential.

Freddie: Graphic Design, it doesn’t have to be central I think. Talking about typography, colors, composition, etc has never made me hot. There are so many other things to speak about with another human being that is far more interesting. Imagine comparing two conversations over a beer. One is about Helvetica, the other about someone’s mistake or recent fuckup. One is so fucking boring that you would go and check the branches if they were thick enough for your weight with a rope in your hand, the other sparks joy and energy.

Freddie: It wasn’t painful for us to realise this. But we started when we were young and single and had no one else to think about than ourselves. And we worked for ourselves so we didn’t have a boss. Which made it easier to work some evenings. But life soon hit us and we understood that life isn’t to work or have an agency. Life is life, just like Opus said it. Keep it simple stupid.

Freddie: Yes I love our people. They are the ones that make everything happen here. The reason why people would love to work for us is partly because we have a decent portfolio, without it, people would only see us as clowns. But because of it, we can then have a very playful brand and company culture that resonates with people. We also voice our opinions loudly and we hate the conservative world. Most agencies don’t even dare to speak up for Black Lives Matter or the environment. That means they are afraid and spineless and believe that if they stood up for something in their life people would dislike them or their company and it would be bad for business. As you can read it’s all BS and this is why they will be left behind as long as they don’t realise that change isn’t optional but inevitable.

Freddie: Snask merch is our way to express ourselves and have fun, just like all the rest of our self-initiated projects. We get something fun out of it. But also we of course want to spread our message around the globe!

We are SNASK and we are your future romance. A creative agency of misfit geniuses conquering the world through fine lookin’ design and real emotions. To worry about what people think of us is a waste of time. As long as we stay true to ourselves, we are living our dream. We see love as the only way forward, and we will never sell out or abandon our values. Standing up for our opinions and beliefs is the only way we know. We walk with our backs straight on the path to pursuing our truth. With one foot in front of the other, we seek to challenge conservative frameworks. We are doctors of disturbance, wizards of disruptions and spokesmen of disobedience. We assume the responsibility to stay engaged, give a damn, and strive for empathy. There is a short word for this assumption of responsibility: love.

Freddie: Pink for us means a lot. But mostly it means to be free. To Stay Pink means to us to stay the way you are and the right to be whoever you are, truly inside yourself. Your right to stand up for yourself and show the world exactly who you are. That’s probably our strongest meaning of Pink.

Freddie: The magic secret about colour is to keep it simple. Simply create what you think looks fantastic. Because colour theory is in my view bullshit. At least when it comes to branding. The only thing to consider is to not choose a colour of a competitor and also to own the colour you choose in the end. The rest is just mumbo jumbo. Like red, being a warning color by nature and thus it’s dangerous. If it was actually true people wouldn’t drink coca-cola from a red can or fly with Virgin’s red airplanes. Also red means blood, love, anger, passion, royal, etc. It’s simply very subjective and also heavily bound to a situation. Blue means the sky, cold, water, right-wing politics in Sweden, left-wing politics in USA, being depressed, death in China and so forth. And this is the magic secret, there is no complex theory or method, simply use your eyes you were born with and choose colors you think look aesthetically pleasing, and if the client hates it, swallow your pride and choice of colour (it’s subjective anyway) and change to a new one.

Freddie: George sadly passed to the aftermath as we know. But he continues his work and duty for us. He’s for sure up to no good most of the times. Rumour has it he’s drinking gin n juice. Regarding the cross-over between him and Snask philosophy, it’s mere chance. We never saw him as a hero nor the person standing on the barricades against conservatism, we learned that much later. So any cross-overs are just luck! About pink lies it’s now so accepted that this woman wrote a book about it from the same meaning as we created back in the days: Pink-Lies-Haley-Todd-Kitts-ebook It warms our hearts that these books exist (there’s a sequel) and we own a copy of each.

Freddie: I think we actually used to think like that. That dirty work or paid boring work would pay for fun work or projects. Now we’re more mature and secure in ourselves and of course, also have the opportunity to say no to clients. I think it’s important to understand the responsibility a graphic designer has. We are the filter and if shit comes through it’s also stuck on us.

Freddie: Haha I love hats. I have at least 5 now. It’s crazy, don’t start. Hats are like shoes, once you start caring about it they suddenly empty your wallet faster than you can say, cowboy. I think it started 2 years ago. I didn’t want to become that “hat guy” but here I am, dirty, ashamed and fucking brilliant.

Freddie: Yes, I love the calmness. Where nothing happens. I’m moving away from having work as a big meaning of my life into having life as the big meaning. Basically, I don’t want to live to work, I want to work to live. When I die I don’t want to regret not having said I love you to enough people, or that I worked too much, or that I didn’t spend enough time with close and loved ones. And putting work or career ego in front of life will most likely result in me having those anxieties. Moving out from the neon and into the nothingness and nature truly helps me to stay grounded as well as present. I strongly see that I wasn’t really present for a lot of years. My focus was on my ego, my narcissism, my career, my work basically everything that boosted my ego and gave me fast kicks. I’m now moving away from that into longterm sanity and in that sane world neon lights (in the metaphors of big city life) won’t make the cut. I need the calmness to be a better person for a lot of reasons and people but first and foremost for myself. Does that mean I’m back to ego haha? Perhaps, but most probably a more sane ego that understands its fails and cracks.

Freddie: I’m not really sure where I found my creativity. I think it was always there, a wild fantasy. But then again we are all born with creativity, society then strangles us to be “grown-up” meaning that we shouldn’t dream, fantasize and play. I hate that. When it comes to authority I always had a problem with it. It culminated when I did my military service that is built on hierarchy and authority figures. I revolted against it in there but it only made me rise in the ranks or gave me more responsibility. I think that’s where I put down my foot to go against everything that is conservative. Because in my opinion, nothing conservative can be good. Every progression (that doesn’t go against human rights) is good and needed and has always been needed for the development of humanity. Perhaps we’re on the brink of self-extinction, yes, but I wouldn’t say that conservatism wouldn’t have taken us here as well.

Freddie: Yeah, nature is for sure something that simply can’t be overlooked. Just walking into a forest makes it so much easier to stay present, something that most other things in our digital life work against. Yes, we have marched in the Greta Thunberg protests with hand-painted signs for example. It’s very interesting that people care a lot about climate change yet vote with their wallet in mind, not the environment. I think that’s kind of crazy. For sure some environmental parties have failed in their communications etc, but there are so many efforts going on about this and still, people go and vote for a system that benefits them financially rather than voting for a healthy world for their kids and grandkids to grow up and live in.

Freddie: Wow, more colour theory. My favourite topic to bash! Here it goes and sorry for ranting:

Yes haha, I’ve heard about the Drunk Tank Pink-theory. But I think it doesn’t really add up. I don’t oppose his results even though I’m not certain about the scientific level of his methods. But what I react to is the parameters he uses. Like how men could even “lose their strength” when being in a pink confined space. What does that mean? I guess he only means muscle strength, strength that isn’t strong in itself until someone uses it in a way that is truly strong. Because what is strong, that’s the question we need to ask ourselves. To me, to you and to the world as well as what should strong mean? Should it be about the size of muscles? Then women will mostly be weaker than men? And men that are not going to the gym will be weaker. Or is it about the effectiveness of the muscles? Like a pro athlete that doesn’t have big muscles but extremely useful muscles, like comparing a bodybuilder to a cross-country ski athlete. Or should strong actually have nothing to do with bodies at all? And instead, we should ask ourselves, if Pink as a color, in confined spaces, actually made men stronger in the sense that they could easier control their impulsive aggressiveness and temper and gain more self-control and patience? If someone becomes more empathic and loving in a pink room and can see and feel other people’s emotions much clearer and also open up and give more to others, I think most people would say that that person became stronger. In this way, the parameters and the values that the person creating the experiment inherit will affect the results. It’s the same way AI works. If a person creating an AI that is going to target criminals through cameras on drones the AI needs to know what criminals look like. And the person creating it will then put in traits that for certain will be racist and stereotypical (actually happened in Germany during the world cup 2006).

Freddie: Colour is also heavily influenced by the culture and the times we live in. Pink used to be seen as a male colour because it is related to red. Red is sangre, blood, and blood is royal and only powerful men were allowed to wear red and tints of red. It’s not like people would have called Jesus gay if he wore a pink robe. And it’s not like blue has always been seen as a male colour. It’s just western mumbo jumbo that was invented some hundred years ago when brands started to sell clothes and accessories to babies and children. Pink is a colour that society made up that men can’t wear because then their sexual orientation is not hetro. But then suddenly men were allowed to wear them as smart shirts and be seen as trendy like Beckham but God forbid if they wore pink pants instead of shirts. Unless you’re a golf pro, then you can play golf with pink pants and still be heterosexual. But NOT if you would wear pink on your woolly hat or your sneakers, then you’re gay again. This only shows how fragile and irrelevant the theory of colour is and how easily manipulated we are from norms that society creates around colours.

Phew! That was long. But it’s a hot topic that I love to talk about because to me it doesn’t make sense. The same way that ghosts don’t make sense. It’s always an old man or lady or a child walking around in nightgowns from the early 1900 or late 1800s. You never see a hot, young person walking through your room half naked or in a cool outfit from the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, ’90s etc. And ghosts are always angry, never happy or friendly. It’s because they died in such agony and that’s why they became ghosts. Well, then Omaha beach would be drowned in ghosts whose lives were taken drastically, violently etc. Then dogs and cats can be ghosts, but not cows unless you’re in India. Also, there are no Neanderthals running around. And ghosts tend to stick in houses, but what happens when a house is torn down? Does the ghost “fall down” on the ground and run around freely or is it stuck in a now invisible house 3 meters up in the air? I can go on forever but yes, it’s another topic that to me most of the time doesn’t make sense. If people talk about energies in a room or similar I can buy it, but not if a child or an old man walks in a hallway screaming at night.

Freddie: I couldn’t agree more! There are many heroes like Prince when it comes to showing another side than the toxic masculinity we’ve been brought up to live with. David Bowie is another one! Both most probably had other issues but they were definitely role models in terms of going against the norm.

Freddie: Yes we are dreamers haha. Yes me and Erik have now been running Snask for over 10 years, with the same idea of dreams and fantasy being the leading inspiration for what we create. I think that directs us much more than trends and I think it’s hugely important to Snask.

Freddie: I still love the Malmö Festival 2014 when we turned an identity and festival poster into a 13m long and 8m wide installation that we photographed 30 meters up in the air. I also really love the project we did for Monki where we created the Monkifesto, a feministic manifesto that challenged the norms.

Freddie: Hahaha what does special skill slash superpower mean?

Freddie: Hmmm superpower. I think I have a talent for coming up with ideas in a client meeting in order to make them want to work with us. Also, I’m good at pushing the client in terms of boldness, making them realize that they need to turn up the volume, or otherwise they could have worked with any other agency than Snask. Last year my superpower has been to develop myself privately by looking inwards and dealing and processing my own personal shit, thus realizing that processed shit is the best fertilizer.

Freddie: I think meditation is one major thing that I have to learn how to master and get a routine in doing it every day. Another strategy is to try and do things that help you stay present. In our world and society and in relationships, being absent on your phone or with other things will most likely break your relationship, friendship, etc. And it can in the worst cases lead to mental illness. So a great strategy is to do everything that helps you stay present. If that is to leave your phone at home when you take a walk or put in a rule that you shouldn’t check your phone for the first and last hour you’re awake, doesn’t matter. It’s all what works best for yourself.

Freddie: Not sure if the space inspires big ideas. But it surely feels different than a regular studio space. But as with anything else, it becomes your everyday life and after some months you don’t think about it as anything different until you step into clients' offices and you realize that our own office is incredibly inspiring compared to theirs.

Freddie: About dying, I totally missed that part. I had to go back to your former email and saw that the little “-” made me think the email ended and that the rest was something else, that translates into me being a bit stressed atm, sorry for that! Here’s my take: I am really sad to hear… I surely think about death, I think you need to. When it comes to Snask’s view on death and gravestones we have the attitude that you shouldn’t regret anything when you die, or rather regret that you did too much than too little. Say “I love you” more times than needed, you’ll be happy on your deathbed that you didn’t say “I love you” too few times to the ones you care about. You need to live, not work. You don’t want to find yourself on the deathbed feeling you worked too much instead of living life and spending time with the people that actually mean something. Furthermore, you want to follow your dreams, nothing scares us more than laying on the deathbed feeling that we didn’t try the things we wanted. We’d much rather lie there feeling that we tried and failed than that we never even tried. Similarly, we want to lay there and regret that we did a stupid thing rather than laying there and regretting we never did anything that was the least risky because we wouldn’t really have lived then.

I’m not sure what it should say on Snask’s tombstone. Maybe that we stood up for our own beliefs until we became gardeners instead of designers. My personal tombstone should say the 4 words: Brave, Fun, Genuine and Loving. That’s the direction I’m slowly and windingly walking towards.

Haha well, that sounds very morbid indeed. I think that celebrating someone’s death can be beautiful. For sure there will be mourning but having a celebration of a person's life and remembering the great parts can be very soothing. In Mexico, on the day of the dead (dia de muertes) people gather on graveyards and celebrate the dead. They cook the favourite meals and place them on the graves, they bring their favourite cocktail and drink with the dead. They play the music they like etc. And it’s actually more celebrating and spending time with the dead instead of only mourning them.

The Seven – GRRR

Freddie: That sounds amazing, I should steal your skull workshop and do it in Gnesta! I actually made a playlist that I would really love to have played at my funeral. It’s a mix of revolt and power: Send the Pope to Redemption. This was my contribution to one of many Snask playlists that we have. If I would choose an album right now it would probably be Orville Peck - Pony. Amazing artist that is openly gay, sings country and wears a mask (so no one knows his true identity).